I watched the following video just now. It was very interesting discussion, yet frustrating at times.
I have some following deep thoughts and a rant on some topics that were discussed.
Definitions first
IMO the words like "real" and "exist" are used differently by different people. Max is did a good job at clarifying this. Therefore of course they take one position or the other. So defining which meaning of the words like real or exist is being discussed the a prerequisite for a sensible discussion that follows. And it is even possible to discuss each different definition with a different discussion.
Discussion on sensation of Red color and Green color
I was surprised about the discussion of green color and red color sensation difference. It not a profound thing and is trivial. The difference between the two starts with the difference between the frequency of red light and green light. When one pair of eyes connected to a brain sees red first time, a pattern is recorded in the memory of the brain. Then someone else says it is called red, so the brain stores a label red for that pattern. Similarly, because of different frequency of green light and the way human eyes are built, produces a different pattern in memory, and a label green is attached to it. When the same brain sees red light, result in a same pattern it compares with the previously stored pattern, looks up the label attached to it, and says it is seeing red. Big deal. And it should be noted that the electrical signals from the eye are not important. The pattern that results in the neurons is what matters. And if the word was not told for that pattern, we will not be able to say that we are seeing red. But we could tell it is different than green. This is trivial. An English speaking person has label red. A Hindi speaking person will call it Lal Rung. All of us have experienced this, when we press against the side of eye balls we see sometimes red color or shapes even though they are not in front of our eyes. In movie Minority Report they inject adverts custom made for Tom Kruse in the Gap store. They are injecting them externally. The idea is that not only a sensation of color, but even an immersive experience like a complete Advert can be injected into consciousness. Yes that is a science fiction. But experiments are coming online that promise to do something like that with strong, non-invasive magnetic and electric fields that will induce specific experiences. Yes it could be scary if it is done non-consensually. It is also known that as we age and our anatomy and physiology changes we call a different shade red than we did when did when we were young. It is similar for the sound frequencies we are sensitive to and musical notes we like and dislike. It is all in the current state of brain structure and state.
2 plus 2 equals 4 ?
I was surprised about the discussion of 2 plus 2 equal to 4 discussion. Yes somebody may argue about each of these words 2, plus and four and say that 2 plus 2 is not equal to four. But if two people agrees about the abstract meaning of 2, plus and 4 then there will be no issue. Also even before a single human was there a normal hydrogen atom at 1 electron. Or speaking of number 5, a normal free Boron atom (not isotope) has 5 electrons.
Reality is math?
I agree with Max that Math is discovered. However, reality is math seems to be a confusion between the description or model of something and something itself. For example a mathematics could describe what a particle with spin +100, 0 and -110 will behave like to high precision but such a particle may not exist. Also when we talk in terms of number about properties of things, the number is followed by the unit e.g. charge, spin etc. That is where things are different from descriptions of them. Here I part company with Max.
Rant 1
Irrespective of whether one thinks consciousness is reducible or not, I was extremely disappointed how Shelly expressed how one day there was phase transition in his thinking and he started thinking that consciousness cannot be reduced and that was allowed to stand in a scientific discussion of this level and caliber. He needs to be called out. Of course he is free to think that but his stature as a scientists should not be in any sense endorse that view. I think he should have been called out albeit politely. That is not a scientific pint at all.
Notes
By the way I think these kinds of specific topics gets again and again and the confusion continues. I guess that is what makes it interesting.
Disclaimer
All the folks in this video are million times smarter than I am. Therefore my thinking on these topics may be wrong.
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